Josiah Tape #2 Felony Phone Transcription by Owen. A Forms, Esq. [00:00] P: This is Patrick J: Hey Patrick, this is Josiah. How are ya? P: Hello, I'm well. I'm in a bit of a crowded space. I'm going to step outside for a moment. Give me just a second. J: Oh yeah oh yeah, take your time P: Ok, it's a little warmer out here, but this is better. J: Alright, well P: Ok, it's the reopening night of one my favorite spots in the city, after they had a fire last November, so I've got be here for the family. J: Oh, the bar you were talking about? P: Yeah J: Oh cool. Well hopefully I won't take up too much of your time then [1:00] As with last time, so we can get this out of the way, this is being recorded. Obviously not for public release, just for our reference P: Yep J: Just to let you know that. And just to give you a little bit of background.. I know we talked about this over email, but I played our interview from last time during our morning meeting, the morning after. It definitely generated a lot of interest. I don't think a lot of people were fully aware what was going on with this community. There's definitely a huge interest in this story, and possibly more than one part. You asked how long it's going to be. It's looking to be about 8500 words as a gross estimate. [2:00] P: Holy shit. Ok, that's a lot. I was thinking something like 1200 J: Well there's a lot of things that we want to touch on there. P: That's been one of my points of frustration with this. I've submitted around trying to get some interest in this. I've written for the New York Times. I have some by-lines of my own. Try telling 3 years worth of daily terrorism in 800 words, or 1200 words. Like there's just no way for me to explain what's been happening in that short of a span. Yeah. 8500 words is better [3:00] J: I think the thing is that this group isn't exactly notorious, in the same way that 4chan or kiwifarms is infamous. They haven't been in the news for any bomb threats or anything of that nature. P: A lot of that is simply because they're so specialised. They just exist to fuck with ME. They're not going out looking for other targets. Like Kiwifarms, they've got page after page of people they've tried to fuck with. It also kind of diminishes their impact on an individual basis. Not for everybody obviously. "Near" being the most recent example. [4:00] But y'know more people end up knowing about them because they end up targeting so many more people. So they come up more often J: Exactly. So it looks like this group, like the people in this group do a little bit better job tip toeing the line of what is legal and what isn't legal. And how to anonymize themselves, sort of spread out illegality of what they're doing. One person does part of it, and the next person does another piece of it. so it seems like it's very difficult to pin anything- P: That's exactly the problem that we're facing in California with lawsuit right now, is that they have it parsed out in such a way that the person who started this web forum for the sole purpose... [5:00] And they admitted it. This forum exists so we can continue fucking with Patrick. I made this-I moved this forum to this new webhost because the last webhost wouldn't let us dox people, because it was illegal in the EU. Quasi101, which is their handle on the forum. They know what this is. They're not just an active participant in it. They are the head of it. If the forums disappeared this goes away overnight because they do this for the purpose of performative cruelty. They need to be able to show each other what they've done. If they weren't able to do that, if they weren't able to show off they wouldn't do it. [6:00] They do this just to feed on each other. And Quasi knows that. But because Quasi has been very cleverly not to directly do anything to me, even though he set up a place where he knows his friends are going to, it's becoming very difficult in the court in California for us to say "Hey, he's one of them". Because the Judge is then like "Well, what did he do?". [inaudible] this website specifically for the purpose of harassment. And then they bring up Section 230, and they're like "He's not responsible for the posts of other people". This isn't twitter. He's not a neutral party. Anyway. I'm ranting. I apologise. J: Yeah, I see what you're saying. Technically he hasn't broken the law. Technically there's no direct evidence that he's engaged in the activity. [7:00] Technically the Judge's hands are tied, is what it sounds like. They can't really bring any action against Quasi101 himself. P: The Judge's hands are never tied. That's simply untrue. The Judge can look at something and go "Right, this might not be the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law, and I'm ruling this way, and you can fight it later in an appeal". We just happened to pick a judge- A judge was picked out a hat who had to ask his son what trolling means So, you know. [8:00] J: Yeah, I know what you mean. So, in our last interview one of the last questions I asked you was if you could back and change what you did, would you do anything differently, and you said "No". Myself and people in my team have sort of gone down the rabbit hole in the past few days and read tweets and forum posts and done a lot more research into this community and your response to the community. It seems the approach you're taking is sort of a much more offensive approach than most people take. Most people when they experience trolling like this they tend to lock up. They might lock down their social media for a few days, or a few weeks, however long it takes until it goes away. And you've sort of been a little bit more offensive in fighting after them. You got their subreddits banned. [9:00] You've gotten, I think, over a hundred, possibly several hundred of their subreddits banned. And as you've just mentioned they've had to hop from community to - or webhost to webhost. Is this something you would recommend to other people who are in a similar position, if they just want to be left alone. Or is this sort of you P: I know where you're going with this question and my answer is pretty simple. This is not a normal trolling thing that I and my family and my colleagues have experienced. [10:00] This is not a normal trolling route. Most of the time, most of the time, the right thing to do if you're getting dogpiled on the internet, for whatever reason, is yeah, just ignore it. Let it settle for a couple of days. Come back in a few days or a week, because they will have moved on. That's not what gangstalking is. That's not what this group is, and never was. You can't just ignore them, because they need me. I don't need them. I very much want to pu- [incomprehensible drivel about a cider] Anyway, they need me. They need the hit of adrenaline. [11:00] This is all this group does. It does nothing else. It thinks about nothing else. I have ignored them for months at a time. Because everybody has said "Don't feed the trolls", but that's the completely wrong advice for a situation like this. I've ignored them for months at a time and it drives them crazy. They need the affirmation, and so, when I ignore them, they double down, they triple down. They find new ways to attack me. They start attacking people around me. They force me to deal with them, and so I've had to deal with them for three fucking years now. Because if I don't, they get worse. A lot of people have experienced getting dogpiled on twitter, or instagram, or whatever. [12:00] Maybe they've put out a tweet that a bad take, and all of a sudden they've got a thousand comments, most of them are negative. Those people are not being gangstalked. They're getting dogpiled on twitter. Those people, yeah, shut down for a little bit. It's twitter. It's instagram. It's facebook. Whatever. People have short attention spans. It'll be forgotten about in a couple of days. People will have moved onto the next outrage, and they'll never think about you again. But that's not what's happening here. For years, they've decided as a group, what target they're going to go after, and they will hound them to the ends of the earth. Until they delete their social media accounts, which is not an option for me, or my career. [13:00] Or, in several cases, as we've seen with Kiwifarms, end it. End it all. So, the last person that they went after was a singer\songwriter out of Portland\Oregon named Logan Lynn, and they went after him just because he was proudly and publicly and unashamedly gay. And he's awesome! Like, him and I have gotten to know each other, because of this situation. And he's a great guy. There was never a reason to go after him, but they did because they are homophobes. And transphobes. And antisemites, and everything. This isn't something you can ignore. It just doesn't go away. You can stop responding. You can stop replying. You can shut everything down, and they're just going to keep hounding you forever, until they read your obituary. J: Right P: And I mean that literally [14:00] They've gone after the online obituaries of my family members. They've attacked the online obituaries of people who were colleagues of mine, just because this is the level of inhumanity and cruelty that these people find so fucking funny. It's just the funniest thing in the world to them. My father-in-law passed away 5 years ago. He was already cremated two years before these people ever heard of me. But they thought it was hilarious to go onto his online obituary page and leave antisemitic messages, and pretend to be people who were gangbanging my wife, his daughter. And to go on and pretend to me, so it looked like I was insulting my own father-in-law, after he passed away. [15:00] I mean, this is what funny looks like to these people. They're not human J: Right... And actually the reason I asked this is because me and other people on my team went down the rabbit hole, looking at some of the other victims of theirs, or some of their targets so to speak. As you mentioned this isn't just a typical trolling group where you ignore it and it goes away. The other example that I was gonna bring up is that one of their other victims, Joseph Cumia who is apparently the brother of Anthony Cumia, the radio host on Opie & Anthony. And, he apparently ignored them, or tried to ignore them. [16:00] I guess from what I can see here they pretty much destroyed his music career. He ignored them, and I guess ignoring isn't enough with this community. He ignored them, and they went after his music career, and they destroyed it. He can't post any of his gigs online anymore. He can't really have an online presence or advertise or anything. Whereas, taking your approach, since this is a unique group you sort of took a more offensive approach than one would reasonable take. And it looks like you're still an author from what I can tell. You're still selling books. I don't think, at least I can't tell, maybe you can help me out with this, maybe they've affected your book sales, or anything like that. Or your ability to handsell. [17:00] P: Oh, I mean not so much my ability to handsell, but they've done everything they've could to ruin me, by posting literally thousands of fake reviews on goodreads, and dozens or hundreds of fake reviews on Amazon in the hours and days immediately after release. I'm certain they have a measurable impact on my book sales, because y'know, people see promotions for a book, and they go to Amazon to order it and it's at 1.2 stars. That's gonna have some fuckin impact. They have absolutely had an impact on my writing career. They've made it more difficult for me to get new contracts. There's no doubt about that. [18:00] Not even necessarily from a sales standpoint. My last two publishers have gotten email death threats. They've been trashed on social media by these people and attacked. Even if I was selling incredible well it would make editors and people in acquisitions be- It would make them second guess whether they would want the trouble. Which has nothing to do with me, or the quality of my work, but the fact that bringing me on also means bringing these motherfuckers into the fold, whether they were invited or not. That's gonna be a consideration, until they're stopped. That's going to be a consideration whenever my agent is trying to negotiate a new contract, and how big my advance is. How many books are going to be in the series. We're experiencing those issues right now. [19:00] J: Right. Okay, definitely noted that. I just wanted to transition to something else. A few days ago I spoke to an individual who wishes not to be named who's apparently been- P: The mole J: Yeah, the mole. Apparently according to him you have a few of these people's real names, including Quasi101. Including his real name and information. And also apparently a club owner in NYC, named Cris Italia, and a former police officer named Canyon Boykin. P: Canyon Boykin's identity, as I said in the email, I'm 95% certain on that one. One second- [20:00] Yeah, Canyon Boykin's identity. He posts as Spacedge and he is by far one of the worst offenders. I mean, he has committed crimes. He needs to see jailtime for what he's done to me and my friends and my colleagues. He is the one who doxes everyone else’s information. When somebody says something nice to me, or stands up for me on twitter, he's the one who goes to searches them out, doxes their home address, doxes their phone number, doxes all their family connections. So people can then, himself included, can begin text harassing and threatening and intimidating them. He's done this dozens and dozens of times to dozens and dozens of people. This man is a sociopath. They all are to one degree or another, but he is the most active of them. [21:00] Now Quasi's identity I am less- like we have some info on that, but I am less confident of it. J: Uh-huh P: We have a screen grab from their private forums that shows an envelope that purports to have his name and address on it, in an accidental doxing sort of thing. I'm much less confident of that one. With Canyon, we've seen other members of the forums, accidentally let slip that he was a cop. We've seen other members of the forums accidentally let slip his initials - C.B. We've seen through the forums in the secret place that they didn't think we could see. We've seen him brag about being a cop. We've seen him during the Chauvin trial showing how much he hated N-words [22:00] And how all these N-words come flocking and the policeman always gets the bad end of it. And saying how his life was almost ruined in exactly the same way as what happened with George Floyd. And then someone calls- When another journalist called the number that was uncovered for him he went on the forums. Again the secret part of the forums that he didn't know we had access to, and started freaking out. So his identity I am very confident in. At this point I would be shocked if it's not Canyon Boykin. He absolutely fits the profile. He's a white supremacist. He's a fascist. He's a racist. He's in his early 30s now. [23:00] As far as we can tell he's unemployed. He's living off his wife's income. He's got all the time in the world. He's probably got access to all these old law enforcement databases that he had when he was a cop, which explains how doxes everybody within a couple of minutes. Like, all their information. It makes too much sense. J: Right. And apparently he killed somebody, right? That's why he's no longer a cop? P: Yeah, back in 2015 he was involved in a traffic stop that ended in the death of a black motorist named Bell. Back in 2015 he was not only fired, but then he was charged and arrested for it, I believe the following year. There's mugshots of him and there's shots of him being walked off in handcuffs. He actually got off on that charge last year when a new Republican- [24:00] What am I trying to say? J: Like a District Attorney or something? P: No, shit. Come on Patrick, you know this. J: Somebody who could pardon him, a judge? P: No, the top attorney in the state? J: Attorney General P: Attorney General! Yeah, thank you. A new Republican Attorney General was elected in their state and vacated the prosecution for this. Canyon claims that Bell had a gun, but conveniently his bodycam footage was turned off for the entire encounter, which is why- He wasn't actually fired for killing the guy. He was fired for not following procedure regarding the bodycamera. [25:00] But he was arrested on a manslaughter charge. There was something fairly serious going on there, but it was just swept under the rug by a new Republican Attorney General, just June of last year. J: And so this is the guy who is doxxing everybody. Okay. P: This is the guy who doxes everybody. This is one of the people who texts me. I know a bunch of the texts that I sent you earlier today were for him, because he posted them on the new forums to brag about it. He was the one who went to me friend who was suffering from depression and suicidal ideation and through text messages demanded that he killed himself. This is the guy who went to that same guy's brother, and acccused his own brother of pedophilia [26:00] And tried to get his own family to turn against him, in the aftermath of his mother's death. This man is a sociopath. He is fucking evil, and I will not rest until he is in prison for all of this. J: Right... Now, in regards to Rahul Kumar, as I understand it. From what the mole told me, or what he sent me were screenshots. There are actually references to his real name on the secret forum as well. With his address. And we did look up in some open records. I believe he lives in New York, and there is a Rahul Kumar who matches up exactly with that address. But you're saying you're not too certain that it's him? [27:00] P: I am less certain of that one. The evidence that I've seen of Canyon Boykin for me personally would be enough to write a story or even to affect an arrest warrant. With Kumar I am not saying it's wrong. It very well could be right. But instead of 95% confident I am sixty. I would need to see some more there. But that's me personally. You guys can come to whatever conclusions you want. J: Okay, now apparently there was a club owner named Cris Italia who had an account there using ToxicCisWhiteMaleFat and there was another journalist - I forget which publication he writes for. He broke a similar story on Onaforums, and right after he wrote that story this individual deleted his account and hired a bunch of lawyers, and sort of clammed up. P: Yeah, that was on the New Republic and the guy's name is Seth Simons. Seth is the one who reached out to Canyon Boykin's phone number, trying to get his side or whatever, when Spaceedge on the private forum freaked out. And was like "OMG Seth just called me. He's figured it out". That kind of thing J: Okay P: Which again contributes to why I'm so confident about his ID [29:00] J: Right okay. P: And Cris Italia. I know of that, and ToxicCisWhiteMaleFat while male--- Good night guys And he was also involved with the stuff against me, but not one of the big players. I think Seth has a lot more reason to be cross with Cris Italia than I do. There's a handful of people and a handful of usernames that I want to see brought to justice over this. And he just wasn't enough of a player to warrant much attention J: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, my next question is how do you keep tabs on these people. Not just anybody can see these forums. You have to create an account. [30:00] I had to be given an answer to a secret question just to make an account here so I could see what's on these forums. Do you have an account on the onaforums to keep track of what they're doing? Or do you sort of wait to be contacted? P: I do not. I've never had an account there. I've never gone on there, but there are other people who this group has attacked. Some of them as collateral damage for trying to get after me. They've made an awful lot of enemies along the way, people who are just as personally invested as I am in seeing this group be exposed, and identified and taken down. [31:00] And those people, several of them have accounts, and whenever it looks like they're about to start a new front, or a new type of attack, or when they've bragged that they've successfully done something, I get PMs J: They tell you. Okay. So what do your friends, family, lawyers, anybody who you talk to about this situation. What do they think of your approach to dealing with these people? Do they think that you should ignore them? Are they in favor of your proactive approach. [32:00] Well, my friends and family for the most part know that they're not going to control me in any way. ANYWAY. They have seen over the years, literally years now that this is not the usual group of trolls, and that the normal advice of don't feed the trolls does not work here. Everybody, myself included would love it if I didn't have to spend as much time on this as I do. I would love to just get back to writing books full time, instead of also having to defend my reputation at least for an hour a day, every day. I mean, that's time being stolen from my workouts. But my wife and my immediately family, and her immediate family recognise the need for it. This group, you can't ignore, because they'll just run wild. [33:00] And my approach has gotten results. The pinnacle of their power was the subreddit. They had 30,000 subscribers. They had tons and tons of engagement. They were the most feared and hated subreddit on the entire website. Actually voted twice to be the most hated subreddit, which they kept as a point of pride. That was taken away from them because of my proactive efforts. That's why they're still so utterly clinically obsessed with trying to hurt me, because I hurt them when no one else had. [34:00] J: So, there isn't anybody sort of pushing back against your proactive approach, especially your lawyers. They aren't telling you to just leave it alone. P: My lawyers would like me to stop engaging and break off, but we've had conversations where I'm like "Listen, this isn't like anything you've dealt with before". The approach to dealing with it is going to have to be different. So, they understand that. I wouldn't say they're 100% happy with it, but y'know, you have to be able to adapt. J: That makes sense [35:00] P: We've taken this group from 30,000 people to a couple- I mean if you're dicking around on the forums, especially the new forums, the engagement is pathetic. There's a couple of dozen left. Once we actually identify and publicly name at least even a couple of them, and they realize that this shit is real that it will affect their real lives. That they will be named. And it's going to start affecting their job. It's going to start affecting their families. It's going to start affecting them in all the ways they've been trying to hurt people. Once that sinks in the rest of them are going to scatter. They've been losing support at a steady clip this entire time. Every time they have to move to a new forum engagement goes down - usership goes down. J: Okay, now with regards to this lawsuit, I know that there's a hearing coming up in a few weeks, and you've mentioned this judge doesn't exactly see eye to eye with you. Or he doesn't think that Quasi101 is responsible [36:00] The judge pro tem is looking at this entirely too narrowly, and he's looking at this from the perspective of someone who's not an internet native. I'm certainly not trying to be agist here, but he did not grow up in this environment. He doesn't understand it. And hence why he's going and asking his son what trolling means. And his son is not a noted internet expert, who also probably didn't read the case brief and doesn't understand the true depth of the depravity of what's going on here gave the standard "It's trolling" answer. [37:00] But the judge is working off an understanding of the case that does not line up with the facts. J: So I guess my question to you then- P: But he's just the judge pro tem. He's not even the Judge that's going to be presiding over the final hearing. J: Right. Okay. So after this hearing is over, if things go your way and you do get Quasi's identity, how are you planning on proceeding. You've already apparently spent all this money, do you plan on continuing to go forward with this case. If things don't go your way... P: I mean, this strategy will be up to my lawyer. This is there environment, and I'm letting take point on it [38:00] So, which sucks, it would have cost me a whole lot less to get some black hat hackers to just go and get me the answers I needed. It would have cost me a whole lot less to pay some people, some programmers, to screw with the base code of their forum and shut them down. Or pull their user data. It would have cost me a lot less to do this the wrong way. But I am the target, I don't get to do things the way they do. I have to do them the right way. J: Yeah. So, you're gonna essentially do whatever your lawyers say? What if you get Quasi's info but your lawyers tell you it's not worth it, are you just going to just go with that? [39:00] P: If we get his identity then we get to depose him, and we get to ask him under oath the real world names of the people like Canyon Boykin. We haven't named him publicly yet, because as confident as I am the evidence we have identifying him probably wouldn't pass muster in a court of law. Which is why we continue to go after Quasi, because he knows. He personally knows all the big players in this, and he can identify all of them. J: In real life? P: So that's the goal. Yes, in real life. He said so. J: Okay P: And these people have been in a weird dark cyberstalking little hell together for five\seven years at a minimum. [40:00] They know who each other is. J: Right P: But until we can Quasi identified, and deposed under oath. That's what needs to happen so we can go after the ones that have been text harassing me and my family members every day for over two years. That's when we can identify the people who made false reports to the Milwaukee police and got my house swatted. That's when we can start identifying the actual criminals. Not just civil suits. Actual criminals J: Criminal suits. From what I understand this subpoena that's being contested in California, that was one of four websites that’s been subpoenaed. Have you gotten any identifying information from Encyclopedia Dramatica, Kiwifarms or patrickstomlinson.net? [41:00] P: I don't believe my lawyers would like that information disclosed. J: Okay, you don't have to answer anything that would hurt your case. Let's see here... This might be the same answer, but we were looking for anything you had in terms of video surveillance of somebody trespassing on your property and vandalising it? P: Yes, we do J: If you could email that to us that would be extremely helpful. It's up to you obviously. P: I will confer about that. We certainly have it. [42:00] J: Definitely get approval from your lawyers, before anything. Okay, we did read the complaints. We didn't get to see the exhibits, but we did get to see who the John Does were, and we were wondering about certain people who have appeared to committed defamation against you but were not named in the suit. There was somebody who makes video games - Childspitgamestudios who apparently made your two previous books Starship Repo, and In The Black, made extremely offensive adaptations and there's also a song parody artist "Motley Poo" who does similar things. I was wondering if you were planning on pursuing action against either of those people. [43:00] P: It's simply a question of money. We have to pick our battles on this stuff. Are those people equally guilty, yes absolutely. As we're learning here in California it isn't just time consuming. It's incredibly expensive. And now there's an outside possibility that they may actually rule that I owe Quasi money. He will never see a penny of from now until the heat death of the universe. He wanted to spend $17,000 to remain anonymous. Fine, but I will never under any circumstances give you a cent of that back. You spent it. That's yours. That's on you. [44:00] J: Even if the Judge orders you? P: Don't care. Not happening. I'm not going to pay my abuser. That's not going to happen. J: Okay. P: That's what the appeals process is for J: Those are all the questions I have Patrick. Today's Friday - we're probably going to have a meeting about this on Monday morning, but I'm definitely going to keep in touch with you about that. And as always I appreciate you taking the time and answering our questions, and this is looking to be a very interesting story to say the least. P: It's been less interesting living it, I'll say that much. [45:00] J: I can completely empathise. There's not going to be any authors named in this article for that exact reason. We don't want this group of people going after the author's, their families, their funeral pages. That sort of thing. P: That's a very wise precaution to take. In fact, I would probably add a line like that in there. it's been authored anonymously because this group is so outside the bounds that y'know we wouldn't be able to safely put our names on this article. [46:00] J: Alright Patrick, that's all I have. I hope you have a great weekend, and we'll keep in touch. P: Alright, thank you much. And I would add that towards the end there, me saying I would never pay Quasi even if ordered to, I would like that to not be included in the article. Because even though it's my true feelings that might be actionable. J: We also have our own lawyers who look over this stuff, so we're definitely not going to release anything, or put anything into the article that would hurt you. Even if you don't ask for it we're still going to have our own lawyers look over and make sure there's nothing that would hurt any of the protagonists in this story. P: I appreciate it. [47:00] The fact that is even a possibility just so blows my mind that the court system is so intrinsically broken. In defense of the Judge pro tem who so far heard the case, even he said in the hearing that he doesn't support sanctions. And that would probably be his recommendation. Even if he decides that Quasi's privacy is more important than mine. And that gives us the possibility of some leverage too. Like we said in the first call, he didn't just have almost $20,000 just sitting around. He's loaned it, put it on a credit card. He's borrowed it from family. Assuring everybody, or assuring himself in the case of the credit card that this is just for a couple of months and he'll get it all back. So, if he really does end up taking that hit, or looking like he's going to take that hit. [48:00] Especially if we can go back and say "Right, we didn't get it the first time so now we're going on appeal. Pay up some more. Psychologically that's going to wear him to the point that he folds. Which it turns out, as I'm learning is all the civil court system is. It's just a question of who's got enough money and staying power. Doesn't have anything with who's right. Doesn't have anything to do with who's been wronged. Just whether or not you've got enough to play the games J: Well would you, I don't want to get too personal, but would you have the resources to appeal that. I don't know how you're financing it, if you're taking out loans or whatever it is, but would that be a possibility for you. P: We aren't paying a penny. [49:00] J: Oh this is insurance or something like that? P: No, they have made enough enemies with enough people. J: Okay. I won't P: This is not coming out of my wallet. They think it is. They think they're continuing to hurt me, but they're wrong. J: Well, that's good to know. That makes me feel a little bit better at least. Well, Patrick, I wish you the best of luck, and we'll be keeping in touch. P: Sounds good. Are you thinking like four weeks or so? I mean, an 8500 word article is going to take time to write obviously [50:00] J: We still have a lot of research to do. It's a little bit difficult because their previous forums don't exist anymore. P: Well we've got screenshots of just unimaginable amounts of stuff. Between me and the people who have been watching them. So at any point if you feel like you want something, or need something. If at any point you want something or need something, like I said in the last couple of emails, reach out and I can dig it out J: Anything that you can send us, especially in regards the real life stalking. You said a person committed vandalism on your property - that'd be extremely helpful. I can get you more specifics probably on Monday, after our meeting. P: Alright, like I said, I will confer whether or not we should release that footage at this point, but it's been at least a few months now, because that was back in spring. [51:00] J: Yeah yeah, definitely get the lawyers permission first. P: Personally I have no objection to releasing the footage, or the image itself of the vandal. I don't have any problem with that, but there's people who are being paid a lot of money to represent us. I don't want to make their jobs harder. J: Right. Okay, we'll definitely keep in touch Patrick and I appreciate all your help. P: I appreciate all the time you guys are putting into this. It's nice to have some people actually paying attention after we've been screaming into the void the last couple of years. J: Well no problem. It's our pleasure Patrick, and yeah, we'll keep in touch. P: Alright, sounds good. J: Take care P: Enjoy your weekend J: Alright, you too. Bye bye. P: Bye. <hangs up> J: Alright..FAT FAGGOT.